Industry Leaders EP14 with Cathryn Greville

Seton Walsh-Rose sits down with Cathryn Greville, the inaugural CEO of NAWIC — the National Association of Women in Construction. A former construction lawyer turned government regulator, peak-body advocate and, most recently, a UK-based leader of sector-wide cultural change, Cathryn brings a rare, systems-level view of why construction struggles to attract and keep its people — and what actually shifts the dial.

It’s a frank, practical conversation about equity as a business issue, not a slogan. Cathryn shares the confronting data (representation has gone backwards, not forwards), why pregnancy is the single biggest attrition risk for women, why culture beats policy every time, the real difference between mentoring and sponsorship, and how NAWIC’s $5 million ‘Allyship in Action’ program is bringing the industry’s 88% majority in as active drivers of change. The throughline: an equitable industry isn’t a women’s issue — it’s how the whole sector keeps enough people to build what’s ahead.

Episode Chapters

• 00:11 Welcome & Introduction
• 00:54 From Lawyer to CEO
• 02:17 Government & Advocacy
• 03:45 The UK Years
• 04:44 Becoming NAWIC’s Inaugural CEO
• 05:13 What NAWIC Is
• 07:03 An Equitable Industry for Everybody
• 08:51 The Parental-Leave Research
• 09:04 Pregnancy: The Biggest Attrition Risk
• 10:36 Policy vs Culture
• 13:25 Parental Leave for All Families
• 14:24 Simple Structural Fixes
• 15:50 Being the First
• 17:10 The Basics Still Missing
• 19:45 Just Have the Conversation
• 22:00 Equity for All
• 23:14 The Basics of Inclusive Leadership
• 26:47 The Representation Numbers
• 28:01 Hard Conversations
• 29:45 The Apprenticeship Cliff
• 31:23 Allyship in Action
• 33:03 Bringing the 88% In
• 35:28 Sponsorship, Not Just Mentoring
• 36:49 Sponsorship vs Mentorship
• 41:37 Psychosocial Safety & Cultural Intelligence
• 43:53 The Business Case
• 45:01 What You Walk Past
• 48:16 Cultural Ambassadors
• 51:54 Resources & a Call to Men
• 54:47 Reflections & Close

Key Takeaways

• NAWIC isn’t a women’s organisation — it’s an equitable-industry one
• The industry is going backwards on representation
• Pregnancy is the single biggest attrition risk
• Parental leave is a parenting issue, not a gender one
• Culture beats policy every time
• Just have the conversation
• Inclusive leadership has three basics
• Sponsorship goes further than mentoring
• Bring the 88% in as active allies
• Everyone has a role — what you walk past is what you accept

Sound Bites / Quotes:
“We want an equitable construction industry for everybody. We’re not just a support network for women — we’re a genuine agent of change across the sector.”
— Cathryn Greville, ~07:30

“We’re still sitting at 12.4% of women across the sector. In trades it’s 3.4%. We were sitting at 17% in 2006 — so it’s gone down.”
— Cathryn Greville, ~26:47

“Becoming pregnant, before you even become a parent, is the single biggest risk factor for losing women in construction.”
— Cathryn Greville, ~15:50

References & Resources

• NAWIC — National Association of Women in Construction: https://www.nawic.com.au
• NAWIC ‘Allyship in Action’ & Male Allyship Program (via nawic.com.au) — funded through the Australian Government’s Building Women’s Careers program.
• University of Sydney research (pregnancy, parental leave and return to work): Full correct citation: Boosting Retention of Women in Construction: Improving Transitions In and Out of Parental Leave lead by researchers Galea and Hamilton at the University of Sydney Business School – copies of 4 research reports available at https://nawic.com.au/Site/Site/About/NAWIC-Parental-Leave/NAWIC%20Parental%20Leave%20Project.aspx
• NAWIC Microaggressions Report: Not So Little Things Affecting Women in Construction: https://nawic.com.au/common/Uploaded%20files/National/Advocacy/The%20Not%20so%20Little%20Things%20Affecting%20Women%20in%20Construction%20-%20FINAL.pdf
• Male Allyship Program: https://www.nawic.com.au/Site/Events/Courses-and-Education/MAP.aspx
• Causal link between more women in leadership and companies outperforming – the more women you have in leadership, the higher likelihood of outperforming other companies (multiple financial metrics): WA BankWest Curtin Economics Centre and WGEA, Gender Equity Insights 2020: Delivering on Business Outcomes: https://www.wgea.gov.au/newsroom/more-women-at-the-top-proves-better-for-business
• Building Women’s Careers program — Australian Government grant (NAWIC won ~$5M).
• John Holland — cited for its early-start / late-start flexibility model.
• Chris Schiavello (Schiavello Group) — earlier podcast guest, source of “what you walk past is what you accept.”
• UK clients from Cathryn’s sustainability work: Network Rail, National Highways, Lendlease, BAM, Skanska, HS2.
• Psychosocial safety and psychosocial risk.
• Cultural intelligence, intersectionality and the protected characteristics.
• The business case for diversity — better decisions (~87%) made twice as fast; women in leadership and business performance.